1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,480 This was the very first episode of the Computer Chronicles, 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,480 broadcast back in 1983. 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,280 When we first launched the series, sitting by my side 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,640 as co-host was Gary Kildall. 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,000 But Gary was a lot more than a TV host. 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,280 Gary, in fact, was one of the most important individuals 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,920 in the history of personal computing. 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,920 Gary died last year, leaving a legacy not 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,160 matched by many in this field. 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,560 Today, we're going to devote the entire show to Gary Kildall 11 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,000 and his role in the development of the personal computer 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,720 on this special edition of the Computer Chronicles. 13 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:55,040 The Computer Chronicles is brought to you 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,800 by RonDiamond.com, the oldies site on the internet. 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,320 Music and memories from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,920 not just another jukebox. 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,920 Additional support comes from the law offices of Ivan Hoffman, 18 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,600 lawyering with integrity for internet law, copyright, 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,040 trademark, and other intellectual property law. 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,080 And by TechWeb for up to the minute technology news. 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,560 On a residential block in the seaside town of Pacific Grove, 22 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,000 California, sits a modest house with a grand history. 23 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,880 Behind its garage in a small carriage house, 24 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,160 one of the seminal events in personal computing history 25 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:37,320 took place. 26 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:40,480 The first modern operating system for the microcomputer 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,560 was born here over 20 years ago. 28 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,240 It was called CPM, and its inventor 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,120 was a young computer science teacher named Gary Kildall. 30 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,000 Kildall had started developing his control program 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,200 for microcomputers, also known as control program 32 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,560 monitor, in the early 1970s when he realized 33 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,280 the potential for a general purpose small computer. 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,400 He was carrying a portable computer 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,880 at a time when the desktop PC was just a dream. 36 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,760 I met Gary in 1973 in the computer science lab late one 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,080 evening. 38 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,080 He was a young kid, freckled, reddish hair, 39 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,560 boyish enthusiasm, was in cutoffs, 40 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,800 came into the computer center with a leather briefcase 41 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,600 that he flipped open and connected 42 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,880 to a teletype, an ASR 33. 43 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,440 And that was an entire self-contained computer. 44 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,000 It was the first personal computer I ever saw. 45 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:33,880 And I went wild. 46 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,880 I wanted to know where he got it, how he got it, 47 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,200 what he was doing with it, how I could get one. 48 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,400 Gary studied computer science at the University of Washington 49 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,680 and went on to obtain a doctorate. 50 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,280 He soon moved to the Naval Postgraduate School 51 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,560 in Monterey, where he later became a professor. 52 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,200 In the 1970s, the seeds of CPM were planted during his 53 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,120 teaching career at Monterey. 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,440 He continued to work on the project at home, 55 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,120 and later in this tiny rooftop office above a restaurant 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,920 in Pacific Grove. 57 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:06,280 The first thing I heard that Gary did that was really 58 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,040 brought to my attention was he invented a programming 59 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,920 language called PLM and implemented it 60 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:15,280 for the Intel microprocessors to prove 61 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:22,120 that the 8088, or the 8080, I'm sorry, was a real computer 62 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,120 and not a controller for microwave ovens, 63 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,840 but that it was a real computer. 64 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,480 And he went off and wrote a programming language 65 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,760 that ran on microcomputers. 66 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,760 Now, we can say, well, of course that's no big deal. 67 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,600 But at the time, it was a pretty big deal. 68 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,880 He invented this language. 69 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,040 And then to show that the language was useful, 70 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,560 he wrote CPM. 71 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,320 That's what really actually happened. 72 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,920 He created this operating system and built it 73 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,200 around this Intel microprocessor to show what could 74 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,400 be done with microprocessors. 75 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,080 And in 1975, when he was doing this, 76 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,360 that was pretty revolutionary. 77 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,840 Gary's approach to computing was far ahead 78 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,320 of the conventional notions of the time. 79 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,080 While a consultant at Intel in the 70s, 80 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,080 he offered to sell them CPM, but Intel could see no use for it 81 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,760 and turned him down. 82 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,280 Shortly afterwards, in 1976, Gary and his wife, 83 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,120 Dorothy, founded a company called Intergalactic Digital 84 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,360 Research, later shortened to Digital Research 85 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,840 in an old Victorian home. 86 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:28,280 In the early days, Digital Research, Incorporated, or DRI, 87 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:30,200 was CPM. 88 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,360 While the operating system is just a dim memory in most PC 89 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,720 users' minds today, its role in the development 90 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,080 of the microcomputer was pivotal. 91 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,560 What's so important about the work that Gary did 92 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,280 was the fact that he was one of the first to introduce 93 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:49,040 an operating system for personal computers that 94 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,160 began laying the groundwork that basically 95 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,560 all other personal computer operating systems, hardware 96 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,800 design, and applications can take their roots from. 97 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,560 The main thing that CPM brought that 98 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,200 was different from how anybody else was approaching 99 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,960 microcomputers was that Gary made a logical separation 100 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,120 of the physical I O system from what was called the B DOS. 101 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,320 The physical I O system was called the BIOS, 102 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:16,640 the basic I O system. 103 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,840 And that was a term that Gary used in early CPM. 104 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,840 The B DOS was a basic disk operating system. 105 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:26,880 The B DOS was independent of the specific hardware 106 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,760 that you had in your microcomputer by comparison. 107 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,480 And we're looking at the time of Unix 108 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,640 being out as a major mini computer operating system. 109 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,680 And you could not move executables of any application 110 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,160 programs from one Unix machine, unless it was an identical 111 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,400 machine, to another system. 112 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,280 So this was really a remarkable innovation. 113 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:51,000 CPM sold extremely well, and DRI flourished. 114 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,240 The company expanded to larger quarters across the street. 115 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,760 The number of employees grew from 9 to 24. 116 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,960 When the new VAX mini computer arrived, 117 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:02,880 it was too large to fit inside the building. 118 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,200 So the entire structure was lifted off its foundation 119 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,240 to accommodate the machine. 120 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,840 A beaming Gary told the staff they would all 121 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:14,080 be getting a raise that week. 122 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,320 It was a time of skyrocketing growth. 123 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,560 By August of 1982, the company newsletter 124 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,080 reported that DRI's revenues had grown over 1,000% 125 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,800 in the past two years. 126 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,200 DRI now had 200 employees. 127 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,560 CPM was established as the industry standard. 128 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,120 And the most popular 8-bit operating system in the world. 129 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,400 When the computer industry was just starting up, 130 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,560 there was the computer industry. 131 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,880 There was IBM and the Seven Dwarfs 132 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,840 and the mainframe industry dominated by glass houses 133 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:51,480 and giant mainframe computers that cost millions and millions 134 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:52,440 of dollars. 135 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,320 And the personal computer industry 136 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:03,400 did not descend genealogically from that gene pool. 137 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,880 It sprung up in a completely separate way 138 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,120 in a completely separate place. 139 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:15,160 And Gary was its spiritual leader. 140 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,760 His company was the biggest and most successful 141 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,680 of all the companies. 142 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,040 And all of the companies were modeled after Gary's. 143 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,120 Gary was a very busy guy. 144 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,160 He was chairman of a large company. 145 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,920 He was personally involved in new product development. 146 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,840 Yet every two weeks, he would spend four hours driving up 147 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,800 and down this Pacific Coast Highway 148 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,040 to spend a day in front of the cameras 149 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,400 when we come back Gary's new role as a television host. 150 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:55,400 With DRI's business growing, Gary went on to other pursuits, 151 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,760 including the role of co-host on Computer Chronicles. 152 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,720 His second career as television host 153 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,040 lasted over six years, during which he provided acute insights 154 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,080 into the technology and potential 155 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,120 of hundreds of products. 156 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:10,880 While appearing on the program, he also 157 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,560 showed off products and technologies of his own 158 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,480 that were far ahead of the market, 159 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,880 including a multitasking operating system for PCs 160 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,160 called Concurrent DOS. 161 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,640 What's even more interesting is that all is not quite 162 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,920 as it appears, because in fact, if you press a little key here, 163 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,480 you actually see that there are lots and lots of processes 164 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,680 actually running, lots of tasks running here. 165 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,760 And in fact, on these serial terminals even themselves, 166 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,880 I can hit a key on this one, for example, 167 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,840 and find that I'm running D-Base 3 at the same time. 168 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,280 So what we're seeing here is the ability of the IBM PS2 Model 80 169 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,640 as a 386-based machine in conjunction 170 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,480 with Concurrent DOS 386. 171 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,760 Its ability to run both standard DOS applications, 172 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,440 because the operating system is completely DOS compatible, 173 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,480 but to be able to run multiple DOS applications 174 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,120 and to allow shared access to them. 175 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,000 DRI also had one of the first graphical user interfaces 176 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,000 called GEML. 177 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,760 Open up a pre-prepared graph, and we'll 178 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,160 see what the combination of text and graphics look like. 179 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,920 I'm going to go to a full scale, full screen here. 180 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,640 You can see here is the final result of putting together 181 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:20,960 text with graphics. 182 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,440 And I'll just go ahead and send this to the output device. 183 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,600 And in this case, we're going to just use a screen. 184 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,680 But it could be a slide maker or a low-rate transparency maker 185 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:31,880 or whatever it happens to be. 186 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,280 Well, I think that his interest was in, first of all, 187 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:42,880 showing that digital research was still the leader and not 188 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,320 and that we had, since graphical environments were sort 189 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,240 of becoming hot, if you will, and the Lisa hadn't really 190 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,320 been successful but word on the street was Macintosh is coming. 191 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,040 And the fact that he could go and show 192 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,960 a multitasking, graphical-oriented environment 193 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,680 running as a digital research project 194 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:03,280 that no one knew at all that we were even working on, 195 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,240 I think he appreciated the kind of surprise factor of that. 196 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,320 And I remember him coming back and saying 197 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,280 that Bill Gates and other people were at this conference 198 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:14,280 that Esther Dyson had. 199 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,920 And their eyes were glued to the screen trying 200 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,000 to see what that was going on. 201 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,840 So I think we put some fear in Microsoft. 202 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,800 And I think Gary liked that. 203 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,600 Gary's pleasure at beating everyone to the starting gate 204 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,040 with new ideas may have been personally satisfying. 205 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,840 But it was also risky. 206 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,840 By revealing DRI projects, he was also 207 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,960 divulging information that could be 208 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,280 appropriated by other companies. 209 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,880 And this created a unique ethical situation 210 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,160 for Gary and his chief competitor. 211 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,440 I really believe that on a scale of 1 to 10, 212 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,920 10 being ethical, Bill Gates is about a 9. 213 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,400 I think that there are some other corporate presidents 214 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,800 out there that are about the 3s and the 4s. 215 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,040 I don't want to be the apologist for Bill Gates. 216 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,800 But I'm saying that Gary is just on a different scale. 217 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,000 His ethics is a different scale. 218 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:11,920 And what happened is Bill used his ethical scale, 219 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,680 which is a darn good one. 220 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:16,800 And Gary used his ethical scale, which is a darn good one. 221 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,720 Now, the ethics of a businessman are generally 222 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,200 one that is very, very competitive. 223 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,040 And the ethics of an academician, 224 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,720 although they're certainly competitive, 225 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,440 involves a much greater degree of cooperation. 226 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,440 And so Gary always cooperated. 227 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,760 He always said, well, Bill, here's what we're working on. 228 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,520 And Bill always said, well, that guy sure 229 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,520 was a kind of a dummy. 230 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,840 He just told me what he's working on. 231 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:46,840 I don't think Gary was really driven to be a businessman. 232 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,600 Gary was driven to create things. 233 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,920 And every time I talked to him, he 234 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,840 had some really great ideas of things he was going to do, 235 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,400 or things that could be done, or things he was working on, 236 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,320 or new technologies and how he might apply them. 237 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,480 That was Gary. 238 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,600 This is a beta copy of the very first electronic encyclopedia 239 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,000 using optical storage technology. 240 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,440 Gary gave it to me one day when we 241 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,240 were taping a show in the studio in that building over there. 242 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,440 Gary had to use a video disc because CD-ROM technology was 243 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,160 not yet widely available. 244 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,480 He was very proud of this. 245 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,560 This was the first product of his new interactive company, 246 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:26,480 then called ActiveVenture. 247 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,040 In 1985, Gary showed the very first encyclopedia 248 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,800 on a CD-ROM, a project that grew out of his fascination 249 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,680 with early video discs. 250 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:38,600 The Grolier Academic American Encyclopedia 251 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,280 had many features that are commonplace today, 252 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,960 including hypertext links, a full text search engine, 253 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,480 and a traditional bookshelf interface. 254 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:48,800 This is what we need to select. 255 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,800 And it's working its way down through the volume 256 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,320 here, giving us finer and finer divisions. 257 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,800 And finally, we go down and find the article titles. 258 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,760 And here they are, just as if we were thumbing 259 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,760 through that section of the encyclopedia. 260 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,520 And we can point to the title we wish to examine. 261 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,000 You're just pulling out that article now. 262 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:05,560 That's right. 263 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:06,080 Here it is. 264 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,240 Here's the exploits of Raoul Amundsen. 265 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,080 At this point, you can page back and forth, 266 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,520 take a look at the article and things of that sort. 267 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,200 Now, that's all in a CD-ROM that's 268 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,480 in this player right here. 269 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,240 And what's the amount of storage involved? 270 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:16,740 How much? 271 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:17,560 What's the capacity? 272 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:20,880 This is 550 megabytes, half a billion bytes of information, 273 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,520 enough to stretch 10 characters per inch from here to Denver. 274 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,240 Gary's success also gave him time to pursue his love of life. 275 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,960 He collected and raced sports cars. 276 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,920 Experienced pilot, he owned several airplanes. 277 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,480 And he never hesitated to fly to meetings across the state 278 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,000 or across the country. 279 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,440 I went out to visit Gary. 280 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:50,440 And we arranged to meet in the airport in San Jose. 281 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:56,160 When I got to the airport, he was flying his own private plane 282 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,000 in. 283 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,720 So I was meeting him in the terminal for private planes. 284 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,560 I looked around the airport, no Gary. 285 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,560 There wasn't anyone who looked like a software person wandering 286 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,360 around this very small terminal. 287 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:11,320 So I called the company. 288 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,920 And they said, oh, look for Gary. 289 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,880 He'll have on cowboy boots and has a red beard. 290 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,040 I knew I could find him then. 291 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,120 And he still wasn't there. 292 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,480 So I looked out the door, the window, 293 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,600 and a plane came rolling up. 294 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,000 And this fellow with the red beard 295 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,320 leaned out the window and said, there 296 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:33,440 aren't any parking places. 297 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:34,720 Hop in. 298 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,600 Gary flew his potential investor to a restaurant 299 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,080 near Sacramento and proceeded to describe 300 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,960 the future of the PC industry. 301 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,440 At that time, he was trying to explain what his business was. 302 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,440 And I had lunch. 303 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,400 And he basically took a paper and outlined the microcomputer 304 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:53,760 industry to me. 305 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,560 He explained how the operating system would ultimately 306 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:04,280 control the industry and how application software would 307 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:09,680 run on top of it and that an operating system company should 308 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,480 support the applications companies 309 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,160 but never have applications, which turned out 310 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,240 to be a fatal mistake and one of the fatal mistakes 311 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,600 for the company. 312 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,960 Even as Gary's financial success allowed 313 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,080 him to accumulate bigger and faster toys, 314 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,560 his contemporaries remember him as a man 315 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,920 who just enjoyed having fun. 316 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,160 Gary had that ability to be innovative. 317 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,440 And yet, on the other hand, he had this amazing free spirit 318 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,960 about him. 319 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,960 Gary was certainly easy to talk into grabbing a six-pack of beer 320 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,760 and going out to the lake and water skiing. 321 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,280 There was never a problem with that aspect of it either. 322 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:53,760 He was a very, very unusual and remarkable individual. 323 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,080 The early days of the microcomputer industry 324 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,080 created an exciting atmosphere that 325 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,560 attracted adventurous entrepreneurs. 326 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,080 To the PC pioneers, working outside 327 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,840 of the mainstream mainframe computer world 328 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,920 made it more risky but more satisfying. 329 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,120 There were very, very few people in those first years 330 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,960 who came into the computer industry, 331 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,360 who came into the microcomputer industry, 332 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,600 from the real computer industry. 333 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:30,480 The attitude that pervaded Silicon Valley in 1980 334 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,000 was, when are the grown-ups going 335 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,320 to come in here and make us stop? 336 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,960 That was really what it felt like. 337 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,320 Because we could do things that we could do whatever we wanted. 338 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,720 CPM's role as the standard operating 339 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,280 system for personal computers was not to last very long. 340 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,040 When we come back, the battle between CPM and MS-DOS 341 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,600 and the true story of what happened 342 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,560 with IBM and Bill Gates. 343 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:10,400 Despite his varied talents and accomplishments, 344 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,880 Gary Kildall was perhaps best known 345 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,360 as the man who chose to go flying 346 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:18,280 on the day IBM came calling. 347 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,960 It was the event which dogged him his entire life. 348 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,800 And it has become a legend in personal computer history. 349 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,760 But his friends and co-workers alike 350 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,640 agree that the story is mostly myth 351 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,120 and that the facts are very different. 352 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,960 Gary and I were scheduled to go that morning up 353 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,880 to meet with Bill Godbout, who was 354 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,480 one of the early people in the microcomputer industry building 355 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:41,600 an S100 system. 356 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,920 And we were delivering him CPM documentation. 357 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,520 So Gary and I, as the story goes, were in fact flying. 358 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,400 We flew up to the Bay Area, up to the Oakland airport, 359 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,920 delivered the software to Bill, and flew back down 360 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,320 and joined the IBM meeting. 361 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,160 We were there for the meeting later in the afternoon. 362 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,000 By that point in time, things had already 363 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,600 gone a little bit wrong. 364 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,360 IBM had come into the meeting. 365 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:09,840 They had what I would call a unidirectional non-disclosure 366 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:10,760 agreement. 367 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,040 The idea was that digital research 368 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,600 was to agree that they had never met IBM 369 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,640 and the meeting hadn't occurred. 370 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,240 And yet everything that digital research disclosed to IBM 371 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,480 was intended to be public domain. 372 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,920 That was the way the agreement was structured. 373 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,880 IBM also wanted to buy CPM outright for a flat fee 374 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:34,120 and rename it PC-DOS, terms that were unacceptable to DRI. 375 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,400 IBM then approached Microsoft and tried 376 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,400 to license its clone of CPM called Q-DOS. 377 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,080 When IBM discovered that it might be facing a copyright 378 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,640 lawsuit, they returned to DRI and struck a deal. 379 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:53,080 DRI agreed to let IBM sell both CPM and Microsoft-DOS side 380 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,040 by side and to let the market decide which was best. 381 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,160 But the deck was stacked. 382 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,840 I can only tell you that we were quite shocked to see 383 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,800 that the price for PC-DOS was $40 384 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,960 and the price for CPM-86 was $240. 385 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,240 We were given no indication at all. 386 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,200 Whatsoever until it was actually rolled out 387 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,920 that they were going to do a six to one price difference. 388 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,880 So in fact, IBM did let the market decide. 389 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,160 It was pretty hard to imagine that somebody could justify 390 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:27,200 buying CPM-86, which had very similar functionality to PC-DOS 391 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,760 when there was a six to one price difference. 392 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,920 Some industry people have pointed to this incident 393 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,000 as a turning point in PC history and the moment that 394 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,120 guaranteed the demise of CPM and the rise of MS-DOS. 395 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,160 Others have pointed out that it somehow changed Gary 396 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,920 professionally and personally. 397 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,080 The frustration that I think more and more frustrated 398 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,880 and to a degree, I have to be honest about, 399 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,960 embittered him some in later years 400 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,280 was the fact that he continually had this comparison thrust 401 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,320 on him. 402 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,200 That any time he would have an interview 403 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,840 or meet a company in a business context, 404 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,240 there were the frequent questions, 405 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,640 did you really go flying when IBM came to visit? 406 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,040 What really happened? 407 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,520 So that would frequently be asked. 408 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,400 And that was always a frustration 409 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,320 because Gary was a person that I think 410 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,880 was very proud of his achievements, of the fact 411 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,360 that he actually was instrumental in building 412 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,640 this open architecture that we have in the industry. 413 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:33,360 I think Gary's view was that what happened happened. 414 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,320 I think he, if anything, regretted 415 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,320 that people didn't appreciate the contributions he made. 416 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,440 I think all people who are really driven to do something 417 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,080 or are very bright spend some time wondering 418 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,160 about the ones that got away. 419 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,320 But I think of all the people I've known in business, 420 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,320 Gary worried the least about the ones that got away. 421 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,000 DRI's loss of the IBM contract was 422 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,560 Microsoft's gain and the beginning of Microsoft's ascent 423 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,520 to software stardom. 424 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,920 But the reasons for IBM's decisions 425 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,080 are still fuzzy and subject to different interpretations. 426 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,720 I think what really changed the perspective from IBM's 427 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,280 standpoint had to do with the fact 428 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,560 that when Gates got involved, he basically said, look, 429 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,600 we'll do whatever you need. 430 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:21,800 We'll put energy. 431 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:22,880 We'll put people. 432 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,760 We'll work as hard as we can to make this happen. 433 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,160 As opposed to the way Gary Kildall and his folks 434 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,640 looked at it, which was, oh, here's another project. 435 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,800 Remember, Kildall had already reached a certain level 436 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,600 of success at that point, where at this particular time, 437 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,120 Gates and the folks at Microsoft were 438 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:40,520 in their very early stages. 439 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,000 But I think that there's also some, 440 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,840 I don't think blame's exactly the right word, 441 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,880 but some responsibility goes to the customers as well. 442 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,880 Because if IBM had not put all of their eggs in the Microsoft 443 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,800 basket, they wouldn't have the problem 444 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,200 that they do today, trying to sell Warp against an OS2 445 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,560 against the monster that they kind of created. 446 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,600 Whatever the reason, the competition 447 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,000 between DRI and Microsoft seemed to become 448 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,000 a personal battle between Gary Kildall and Bill Gates, 449 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,840 at least in the public eye. 450 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,960 Well, Gary always considered Bill Gates a very good friend. 451 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,440 In those early days, they all sat, 452 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,800 they all were very friendly with each other and cooperative. 453 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,040 And certainly Bill Gates says today 454 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,960 that he sent IBM to DRI when they were looking 455 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,680 for the operating system. 456 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:44,600 I was on a panel that Ben Rosen put on for the Rosen Forum 457 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,200 in those very early days. 458 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,200 And Gary got up and talked about what his plans were for CPM 459 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:55,680 and where the company was going and then made a comment. 460 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,960 Well, this is a very large market, 461 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,000 and there's room for lots of companies. 462 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,400 And Bill Gates interrupted, and he said, no, there'll 463 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,080 only be one company. 464 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,160 Gary Kildall's life cannot be summed up by any one incident. 465 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,040 It was made up of many notable accomplishments 466 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,640 and a constant desire to innovate. 467 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,240 His numerous contributions to the PC industry 468 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,520 are evident, if not always recognized. 469 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,960 To those who knew him well, it was the delight of discovery 470 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,680 and not the money that drove him. 471 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,000 And I think that in his mind, what he was always looking for 472 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,920 is, what is it that he could get or do 473 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,760 or create with technology that would be his big win? 474 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,440 And that was elusive. 475 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,760 And the fact that it was elusive, I think, 476 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,800 played very heavily on the way he lived 477 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,720 the latter part of his life. 478 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,160 Gary Kildall's untimely death in 1994 at the age of 52 479 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,800 was a reminder that the light of genius 480 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,840 is transitory and fragile. 481 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,160 To his many friends and associates, 482 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,680 it was a warning that we should cherish our relationships 483 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,160 while we can. 484 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,400 He is among a very small group of people 485 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,400 that helped change the world in the 70s. 486 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,480 And I think another group of people 487 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,560 have taken advantage of it in the 80s and the 90s. 488 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,520 And I'm sure that that will continue. 489 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,680 But Gary made a difference. 490 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,520 I think he knew he made a difference. 491 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,880 And certainly, the people who knew Gary 492 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,560 knew he made a difference. 493 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:34,840 I think at this point in time, it 494 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,240 would be a shame to have Gary forgotten 495 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,000 as being a person that was instrumental to the growing 496 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,280 of this whole industry itself. 497 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,160 Gary was somebody that had an infectious enthusiasm. 498 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,760 If you go out in the industry and talk with associates 499 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,720 that he worked with at a business level, 500 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,760 knew Gary as a person that enjoyed 501 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,480 the warmth of human contact, that enjoyed going to parties, 502 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,440 to be very personable. 503 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,600 He was not somebody that restricted his focus 504 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,520 to just the decision makers and the people that 505 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,720 were leading the businesses and whatever. 506 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,240 He was somebody that had a breadth of interests 507 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,000 and was a very open person. 508 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,080 So I think it would be a real loss if all that the industry 509 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,680 remembers about Gary is he was the guy that was flying 510 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,040 the day IBM came. 511 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,920 Because he was much, much more of a person 512 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,440 and contributed a great deal to this industry. 513 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:44,240 But all of a sudden, I wish I could have gotten to know him Dee 514 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:58,240 Gary did make a difference. 515 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,320 He was a genius and a gentleman, a rare combination. 516 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:10,200 Gary did make a lot of money, but he was driven by an honest desire to create new ideas that 517 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,340 could expand the human potential. 518 00:26:13,340 --> 00:26:35,120 For The Computer Chronicles, I'm Stuart Shafae. 519 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:40,560 The Computer Chronicles is brought to you by rondiamond.com, the oldies site on the 520 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:48,000 internet, music and memories from the 50s, 60s and 70s, not just another jukebox. 521 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:53,240 Additional support comes from the Law Offices of Ivan Hoffman, Lawyering with Integrity, 522 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,860 for internet law, copyright, trademark and other intellectual property law. 523 00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:04,240 And by TechWeb, for up to the minute technology news. 524 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:13,460 To purchase a videotape copy of today's program, call toll free 1-888-310-7850. 525 00:27:13,460 --> 00:27:40,720 Please specify the show number and the topic. 526 00:27:43,460 --> 00:28:00,760 Thank you.